Tackling Student Anxiety: The Anxiety Project's Data-Driven Results

Anxiety levels among students are skyrocketing, dramatically affecting their ability to tackle challenges and participate fully in school life. Former NSW PPA executives Rob Walker and Trish Peters join us to share remarkable findings from The Anxiety Project, a groundbreaking initiative now implemented in 129 schools across Australia, reaching nearly 47,000 students.

The project emerged from a critical observation: despite well-intentioned efforts, the accommodations schools were making for anxious students weren't actually building resilience. "We're providing so many accommodations that we haven't set kids up for success in secondary school," Trish explains, highlighting how primary schools were unintentionally creating dependency rather than capability. The solution? A comprehensive, whole-community approach that empowers adults to stand beside children through challenges rather than solving problems for them.

What makes this project uniquely effective is its layered implementation model involving every stakeholder – school leaders, teachers, non-teaching staff, parents and students all receive specifically designed training and support over a two-year period. This creates consistent messaging and a common language around anxiety. The results are compelling, with data showing significant, measurable reductions in student anxiety over time. One school reduced its anxiety score from 19.78 to 10.53 within just 12 months. Perhaps most surprising is the profound impact on teacher wellbeing, with educators reporting renewed satisfaction in their profession as they witness tangible improvements in student resilience.

Interested in transforming your school's approach to anxiety? Visit the NSW PPA website to learn more about the project and access expression of interest forms. Mid-year intake closes 16 June 2025. As project leaders envision, the ultimate goal is nothing short of "a less anxious generation" – an outcome that benefits not just education, but society as a whole.

Links to the Anxiety Project:

https://www.nswppa.org.au/the-anxiety-project

Links and References:

To view our Professional Learning Offerings, visit:
https://www.nswppa.org.au/professional-learning

To view our latest offerings, visit: https://www.nswppa.org.au/catalogue

Chapters

• 0:00 Introducing the Anxiety Project
• 9:23 Origins and Development
• 18:38 Unhelpful Accommodations vs. Adjustments
• 31:03 Comprehensive Structure and Implementation
• 39:25 Measuring Impact and Data
• 51:08 Unintended Benefits and Refinements

Transcript

Drew : 0:01

Welcome back to Professional Learning's, the New South Wales PPA Educational Leadership Podcast. It's great to have your company. This podcast aligns to the values of the New South Wales Primary Principals Association, that is, the values of principal wellbeing, principals as lead learners, as well as supporting principals to lead school operations. If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe for further updates, as well as supporting principals to lead school operations. If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe for further updates. Now let's get into today's latest episode. In this episode, we shine a light on the Anxiety Project, which is a vital initiative responding to the rising tide of student anxiety in our schools. Joining us today in our podcast is Rob Walker and Trish Peters, both former New South Wales PPA state executive members and current project leads. They bring deep insight and fresh findings from the latest data, offering practical strategies and system perspectives to support student well-being. Let's dive in.

Rob : 1:11

Well, there was a report published in 2019 which showed that anxiety levels amongst kids was having an impact on the quality of work going on in schools.

Rob : 1:20

It was something that principals were right across Australia saying was a negative in their capacity to build kids to be the best versions of themselves.

Rob : 1:32

It was also consuming a lot of their time and distressing for staff trying to get on with their work as teachers but unable to because of the impact of anxiety.

Rob : 1:41

That concern was brought forward to the New South Wales PPA State Executive, where Trish and I were members at the time and we were given the task of visiting a session offered by a child psychologist, michael Horton, and I went along to that session and came back and spoke with Trish and the other members of the State Executive and suggested that there's two things we could look at here.

Rob : 2:02

One is this is a health issue it's not really an education issue and we could put it in the basket of the health department or we could look at it as a child wellbeing issue and an issue that was impacting on the wellbeing of our colleague principals and the staff at schools and do something with the information shared in the report and to look at the sorts of things that the PPA might be able to provide, and so the decision of the state executive was that we would move forward with the design of the project. Trish and I and other members of our leadership team from Michael's company Parent Shop came together over a three-year window to produce the project, and that's given us a project that we've now been working for a further three years on delivering in schools.

Drew : 2:54

Yeah, that's an interesting insight, and for you, trish Peters Well, I was very motivated by the fact that Rob Walker took the lead in investigating some other parent education projects and when he was tasked with the responsibility of taking this forward, I wanted to support him in his endeavour, because student wellbeing is a real passion of mine and, interestingly, I would disagree straight away that it's a health issue.

Trish: 3:23

One of the reasons that I was particularly motivated to want to join this project was I can see in my own school and by speaking with my colleagues that the manifestation of anxious behaviours in students is stopping teachers and schools from doing really solid work with kids and getting them to be challenged.

Trish: 3:42

So it's hard to have high expectations in a school where you're constantly having to lower expectations because of anxious behaviours. What I also saw was teachers working hard to provide adjustments or accommodations for students to manage a variety of anxious behaviours, and it takes quite a bit of time and planning to be able to do it. But what we noticed was these accommodations and adjustments weren't actually helping us to meet the goals of getting kids to take up challenges, develop resilience, and we've always had a focus on resilience and wellbeing in the Department of Education and there was a great opportunity to develop this whole of community approach a the PBL approach, where everyone's involved to be able to address anxious behaviours that were preventing kids from doing everyday things going out to the playground, working with a different casual teacher, you know, maybe changing classes, maybe learning how to get on a bus and get home, playing with new friends, being able to navigate just everyday kind of challenges. So that was what motivated me to take this on and, as a leader, those accommodations.

Trish: 5:01

obviously that's what you think, as a leader, we're doing is the right thing in terms of what has been the learnings as a leader through this project.

Trish: 5:14

Can I just add something in there, one of the things that I've also noticed. Rob's at a K-12 school, and there may be a different, he may have a different context, but I'm thinking of many of my primary colleagues. What we're doing is we're providing so many accommodations and adjustments for our students and when we go from year six to year seven, we actually haven't set them up for, I don't believe, the conditions that might be in their local secondary school, which is, you know, you have to deal with a range of different teachers, you're going to have to navigate new friendships, you're going to have to do things that are really quite challenging, that you've never experienced before, and one of the things that I've spoken about with my colleagues is we're actually not setting our six kids up for success in secondary school. So it's probably different. In Rob's school, where it's a K-12 environment, They've got that natural transition. I don't know, rob, what do you think?

Rob : 6:08

Well, there's probably a couple of points I'd make here. First of all, I just want to go back to something you said a second ago, and then I want to put in a differentiation between the accommodations, or unhelpful accommodations, and the adjustments With the parents. Certainly, working in schools, I know principals find parents will often come forward expressing uncertainty about how to handle things their kid's presenting, and so I could see that we, over a period of time as a principal, I could see that we were working really, really hard as a system of educators across the country to really refine teaching practice and what we were doing in classrooms and in school settings with kids. But I felt strongly that with the feedback I was getting from parents and the struggles that they were experiencing, that it was a bit odd or even a bit crazy in our world that we don't educate for parenthood. We educate for so many things in this life and we don't educate for parenthood very effectively or very often. I mean there are some very good programs operating but they're not widely undertaken and they're not certainly programs that are. You know there's structural arrangements put in place by governments to see that the majority of parents have the opportunity to recognize there are things that kids go through at certain stages quite commonly and here are some suggestions that you might consider using in those circumstances.

Rob : 7:30

Everyone's recreating the wheel in every family with every new generation, rather than picking up on things or perhaps reflecting on their own childhood. I often hear parents saying, well, I'm absolutely not doing what my parents did with me, or I turned out okay, so I'm going to do what my parents did with me. So you get both those kinds of comments being made. But certainly parents have shared frustrations with being uncertain about how to handle things with kids and you know we want kids to grow to be their best and we want parents to grow to know and understand how best to help their children grow to be their best. The second thing I want to talk about was just put a line in the sand over some phrasing here.

Rob : 8:12

We talk in the project and we're promoting the messaging of unhelpful accommodations that adults put around kids Trish has just referenced those and we also talk about making adjustments to teaching programs to refine work so that our work is individualized to students.

Rob : 8:27

They're two different things and the project puts the staff teaching and non-teaching staff in schools through an experience and a learning process of understanding the difference between what is an unhelpful accommodation where, effectively, adults around a child are taking from that child learning moments.

Rob : 8:47

The metaphor I use in my mind is we as adults, whether we're parents or whether we're school staff need to be standing beside a child and allow them to sit in discomfort when things come at them and talk them through what's occurring, not step in front of the child, solve the issue. They're standing behind our back and they don't really see or understand or know what it is that are their choices or knowing what to do. So one of the big learnings of the project for all the adults involved is to know how to stand beside a child, allow them to sit in discomfort and allow them to move forward in their learning of how to manage things and understand how their body functions. We particularly use body messaging that kids can pick up in the early years of school so they understand how their mind is working and they learn techniques for emotional control. We found it to be very effective in reducing anxious behaviours in kids.

Drew : 9:44

We found it to be very effective in reducing anxious behaviours in kids? Yeah, and in terms of just elaborating on that, is that in terms of the anxiety project as such, how is that we've covered in our discussion so far? We've covered teachers, we've covered leaders, we've discussed parents. We've also discussed students. How does this project essentially tackle all of those things? We will go to research and evidence, but I guess for our uninformed listeners, what does the anxiety project, how can we cover all of those facets that we've said, and either Trish or Rob, I'll let you take up on that.

Rob : 10:33

Yeah, I'm happy to pick that up, Drew. The key message I would put out here is that the Anxiety Project has layers of intervention, layers of support. So there is, firstly, when schools are considering being involved. There are information sessions that we provide, which enables the school to assess whether or not this is for them. They can have a look at what their commitments would be. They can have a look at the offerings that we would put forward. So they go forward knowing that there are certain things that they will need to have in place at the school. These are not insurmountables. These are the things that principals do every day when they're organising for projects to come in, but there are commitments expected from the school. The other thing that I would say training. It is ly fundamental to have the l leader on board, ,understanding t is that the layers of the project involve school leader training and in a position of confidence to lead the project over the two-year duration.

Rob : 11:28

The project runs in the school. Each school involved has a coach. That's the person within the school who is the champion for the project, who is supporting the staff, who's making sure that the tasks involved in delivering the project over that two-year window are on track, and that person receives, with the school leader, quite deep and purposeful organisation and quite deep understanding of what we're trying to achieve with the kids and how they think and how the staff work and the parents work with the kids. But also the organisational support is there for them and I'll talk a little bit more about that organisational support in a sec. The teacher training and the non-teaching staff training is broken up into a series of video segments with introductions and closing remarks. They are led by the coaches who are trained to support those sessions. The sessions themselves are delivered by Michael and his team from the parent shop and the coaches then lead through sessions that unpack those with the staff. It's flexible. There's varying amounts of time. If you want to run two or three video clips as a school in one session because you can make a school development day session available if you just want to do one click clip clip and make it part of a staff meeting, you can do that, but there's a window of time available to deliver the project. The other thing, then, is that we have built into the training program a session with Michael and his teams If there are questions that come forward during the sessions delivered by the coach that need follow-up by Michael and his team. That session is on offer, and so then we have lesson delivery for the kids.

Rob : 13:11

There are seven lessons. They're stage. Appropriate Stage is one, two and three. There's a year A year B model for the lessons and they're all appropriate to the age level of the child, and I mentioned some of the content areas of those lessons. They are delivered by the classroom teachers, supported by the coaches, the people who really know the kids very well.

Rob : 13:33

There are parents-reving sessions that follow on. These are conducted whenever the school feels they're suited. They're led by the coach. The coaches are trained in the delivery of the sessions with the parents using content provided by Parent Shop and Michael, the child psychologist, and his team. We have fortnightly cafes for the coaches where they have the opportunity to sharpen the saw with their skills with each other, and we have principal cafes every turn to make sure the principals are strong and confident in how to lead. There are newsletters provided with deeper professional learning and also support to the coaches to keep them on track with the tasks involved. And finally, we have all of this brought together on LearnWorlds, our learning management system, a very comprehensive place online that the coaches can go to to share information with each other. Trish, what have I left out there?

Trish: 14:26

I don't think you've left out anything. What I want to say is the point of difference for this particular project is that it does cover all of those layers, so it doesn't rely on one champion teacher going I think this is a great idea it doesn't rely on just one person implementing something in the school or delivering something that not everyone else is getting. The point of difference is that it's consistent right across the board and the way all of the layers intertwine and interconnect. You don't miss anyone in your school community. You've got parents, you've got students, you've got teachers, you've got your school learning support officer staff. Even your admin staff are all part of this big picture. When they all have the training, they're all able to deliver consistent messaging.

Trish: 15:13

It's the fidelity of implementation that's really important and this project is built around fidelity of implementation and ongoing sustainability, because what we're trying to do is develop in a whole school community, a have-a-go culture. So it's all of these layers that combine to provide the support that you need. Those face-to-face interactions you know on the Zoom cafes are so very important. You build sets of connection, collective efficacy. You know we're working really strongly with our implementation coaches, who are like your instructional leaders in your school to help maintain, sustain, build capacity and build that culture so that if the person leading the project goes, that is maintained, you don't lose the benefit of all that hard work.

Rob : 16:01

Drew, if I may, I might just talk a little bit about the tools we're using to measure the impacts. It's one thing to talk about the layers of delivery, but the research component of the project, which I know you've got some questions you'd like to move into more detail and I think those questions will still be appropriate. But I just wanted to say that the other arm or the other layer of the project here, is that we are measuring impact. We measure before we do anything in the school setting and then we take measures every six months on the impact on anxious behaviours on kids and we take measures of shifting staff confidence in recognising anxiety and knowing what to do and then we take measures of parent reductions in their unhelpful accommodations. So those measures are using university level instruments. But what's really exciting is the news that we've been brought to the floor most recently.

Drew : 16:58

Yeah, perfect segway there, Rob Walker. In terms of just recapping what you both have said, though, in terms of the whole, what an opportunity for leaders and school change of lay support. It's a two-year project. There's a coach, an internal coach, there's sessions with expert psychologist Michael Horton and his team. There's comprehensive amount of resources. It's a whole school change program. It's ongoing with sustainable practices, sustainable practices and now 2025. We've heard all of the background of the why we've talked about the layers of support. Let's not now talk about we've in 2025, about the data and the impact so far of the project. Rob walker, can you lead us through that?

Rob : 17:54

Yeah, yeah, sure. So look, I am going to name some schools here, but I'm not going to link the data that I'm going to share directly with the schools. But I think it's more meaningful for our colleagues to hear the names of schools that are involved in this project and perhaps they know the colleague principal there and want to talk about what's going on. So schools like William Dean Public School, jamieson Town Public School, pennant Hills Public School, strathfield North, public Cardiff Public School, bellingen, warratah West, charlestown, kirkhill North, manly Vale, warilla North, chitaway Bay, woodport, claremont, meadows, bangalow Public School these are all schools in varying settings that are all showing that, from the T0 measure, which is the first measure we take before any intervention is undertaken, to the T1 measure, which is six months later, a measure of whether or not there's been a reduction in anxious behaviours in kids, to the T2 measure, another six months later, so 12 months from the first capture, these schools are showing reductions in anxious behaviours in their Yeah, yeah, sure. So look, I am going to name some schools here, but I'm not going to link the data that I'm going to share directly with the schools. But I think it's more meaningful for our colleagues to hear the names of schools that are involved in this project and perhaps they know the colleague principal there and want to talk about what's going on. So schools like William Dean Public School, Jamieson Town Public School, pennant Hills Public School, Strathfield North, public Cardiff Public School, Bellingen, Waratah West, Charlestown, Curl Curl North North, Manly Vale, Warilla North, Chitaway Bay, Wood Port, Claremont Meadows, Bangalow Public School these are all schools in varying settings that are all showing that, from the T0 measure, which is the first measure we take before any intervention is undertaken, to the T1 measure, which is six months later, a measure of whether or not there's been a reduction in anxious behaviours in kids, to the T2 measure, another six months later, so 12 months from the first captures.

Rob : 18:58

The schools are also showing and they're a subset.

Rob : 19:02

There's 129 schools that either have been or are involved in the project. There's just under 47,000 students involved in the project and approximately 3,500 staff and 2,500 parents directly involved in what's going on in the project through the sessions that we're running, so it's got a big footprint. You're right, it's a whole school community change project, hence the commitments that we ask for schools at the front end of the project. But the data that we're seeing here is showing consistent reductions now, and this is really the first time we're sharing this data publicly Some people might have heard feedback about the project over time, but today this podcast is sharing with colleagues that we are seeing consistent reductions in anxious behaviours in kids. We've known that the project's been delivering increases in staff confidence in identifying anxious behaviours and knowing what to do next. But we're also now sharing. For the first time we've got data showing us that there are reductions in unhelpful accommodations by parents, and so all of this is packaging together to seeing a positive outcome for the kids in our schools.

Drew : 20:13

Yeah, so let's pick up. Sorry, Trish, I was going to say let's pick up on the data. Would you like to elaborate further on what Rob said?

Trish: 20:19

I don't want to elaborate on the data. I just want to talk about what we're using to be able to measure. So one of the things we're trying to measure is teacher confidence in identifying anxious behaviours and then their confidence in being able to deal with anxious behaviours. And that's pretty significant because in your classroom you're wanting to work out how you're going to approach your overall approach in dealing with anxious behaviours and stopping those unhelpful accommodations that prevent kids from doing regular everyday things. So we ask teachers to talk about, assess their confidence and their ability to address anxious behaviours.

Trish: 20:58

The other thing we do is, with a random sample of students, we ask teachers to assess the levels of anxious behaviours. So they don't have to know what anxious behaviours are, because the instrument that we use gives the examples and asks you to rate the level of these anxious behaviours that you see in particular students. And then what we're looking for some time later in the T1 collection is has that changed, you know, has that level changed? So the instruments aren't hard to deliver and they're classroom focused. So when they're looking at anxious behaviours we're not talking about outside things. What does it look like in an actual classroom? And those are the things that teachers know and can easily identify. So those measures, even though they're university instruments, relate to teachers' everyday work. That was pretty much what I wanted to say.

Drew : 21:56

Yeah, thanks, Trish. What's your perspective? Rob Walker, what's?

Rob : 21:59

up Drew. I just want to say Trish has made a really important comment there, so let's be clear about the measures and the time that's involved in doing the capture. The staff are doing a report every six months on six kids from their class. Each report takes two to three minutes. On completing a survey it's the same survey on each occasion. The staff complete a survey on themselves, a staff self-assessment teaching or non-teaching staff and we're seeing schools involve not only their classroom teachers but also their SLSOs or their teacher's aides, depending on what sector you're in and also the SEOs in the school, because they're often looking after the sick bay or the clinic whatever it is that it's called in your school and they will see firsthand where those kids are going. So these data captures are quite manageable experiences and we're seeing now more consistent data coming through from the schools in reporting these reductions in anxious behaviours and increases in confidence and reductions in the accommodations from the adults around the kids accommodations from the adults around the kids.

Drew : 23:18

Okay, so just to confirm that the data capture is of the teacher teaching in their classroom and their data set is the six students within their own context. Correct me if I'm wrong there.

Rob : 23:32

Yeah, no spot on. There's six students per class. It's a random sample of the role, so you're not picking the six most anxious kids or least anxious kids. It is a random sample of students from each class that's involved in the project and we take a measure of those six kids every six months and a shift in those kids, and it takes two to three minutes for the teacher to complete the survey on that child.

Rob : 23:57

The other thing I was going to say is that Trish alluded to this and I think it's worth emphasising that we're not talking about additional layers of work for school staff here. These are conversations that we are shaping that staff are already having with kids, whether they're in the classroom or in the playground. Staff are already talking about anxious behavi having with kids, whether they're in the classroom or in the playground. Staff are already talking about anxious behaviours with kids, but what happens here is that they learn how to guide those conversations and they learn how to pick up cues and where to go with them. So that's a key differentiator, I think, for staff.

Rob : 24:29

The other thing I would say is the lessons being delivered are in keeping with the PD Health PE syllabus, so they're not across the national curriculum. So they're not things that are outside or in addition to our work. They are very much part of our work. So we're not talking about additional workload here. These are conversations that we're already having with kids, but they're going to be following training, they're going to be more purposeful and have better outcomes, and the lesson materials are provided and recommendations for resources and support is provided through the cafes to the coaches on how to guide staff in the delivery of those lessons.

Drew : 25:06

Okay, terrific. So in terms of then, the same questions are being asked throughout the duration of the project. There's facets known as T0 measures, which is a baseline, then we've got a T1 and T2 measures. What are we seeing currently? Now, rob with the data.

Rob : 25:28

So I will share some numbers with you. Without giving away the names of schools, so let's just call this one School 1. Without giving away the names of schools, so let's just call this one School 1. They recorded a score of 13.67. And the score is at T0. The score is a numeric representation of the levels of anxiety presenting in that particular school. At the T0 interval they're showing a reduction to 13.33 at six-month measure, a small shift.

Rob : 26:01

We're kind of not surprised sometimes where the schools show a smaller shift at the T1 measure because we're also removing from kids the unhelpful accommodations so that in itself can cause more anxious responses from kids. But this particular school I'm looking at at the moment has then six months again later so 12 months from the initial measure their scores dropped to 9.11. So you can see that over time that school's recorded reductions in the number of anxious behaviours. So it's that kind of consistent data that we're seeing, showing reductions over time. I perhaps could pick one other school that I think has shown quite a remarkable reduction, but there's a number of them here in front of me that I'm looking at A score dropping from 19.78 at the initial measure to 13.07 to 10.53 at the 12-month marker, so reductions in anxious behaviours. The other thing that's interesting here is that we provide comparative data with a statistically similar school group, using the same principles of how those SSGs are formed when we're looking at our NAPLAN results or the other data that CC uses to assess change in schools.

Rob : 27:18

So what's interesting about these schools is that they are closing the gap between their school and the SSG. So, for example, in the school that I just mentioned, 19.37 is their initial score. The SSG was at 13.19. So this school that I'm referring to now had relatively high levels of anxiety and they were about six points away from the SSG. At the next measure they had closed the gap to just two to three points 13.98 with the SSG at 11.23. Hoping I'm not losing you with the numbers here, but the bottom line is these schools are closing the gap and getting closer to the SSG and we also have whole of cohort data and they're closing the gap in that space as well. So, as I said, you know some really impressive results across the board from large numbers of schools now coming into as a result of the data collections associated with the project. Numbers of schools now coming in as a result of the data collections associated with the project.

Trish: 28:17

Well, rob, I'd like you to come here and just talk about why it's not because it's a competition or it's something to put in your school plan to go, you know, reduced here. Knowing these differences helps us then to target the support, the ongoing support that we provide all the participants. So when we can see all of the statistically similar groups and the reductions we go, what's that school doing that's making it get such good results and how can we leverage what they're doing for others? So we have our Zoom cafes where we share information and good practice, and then annually, we have a showcase day where we invite some of those schools who are doing very well and have got some excellent practice to share with the rest of the cohort. And it's pretty profound because, as I said, it targets the ongoing support that we have. It might direct us to having different readings uploaded to the LearnWorlds platform and that type of thing. So it's an iterative process, using the data to be able to work on what we need to do next to be able to support project participants.

Drew : 29:31

Trish. So many good takeaways there, the learning fair just the sheer amount of resources available, Rob.

Rob : 29:39

Walker, could you elaborate? I'm not sure if I mentioned earlier Drew. The cafes for the coaches are a fortnightly exercise and we ask the coaches what works best for them and land on a time that can occur. For most coaches and for the current cohort. We're working on Thursday mornings 8 to 8.45, and that's the time that we all come together. There's a session host for Michael's team. Occasionally. I'll host it, but it will depend on the content areas and the sorts of things that we're doing. There is really refining practice.

Rob : 30:11

We're looking at what is going on in the schools, what different things people have tried, what results they have. I'd have to say one of the most humbling experiences in leading this project for Trish and I is the amazing array of innovations the coaches come forward with and how they take their learnings in the project and shape them into things that are most meaningful for their school communities. It's astounding. The talent in schools across the country are astounding, and I should say too I've said across the country a couple of times. The project started in New South Wales public schools. We have now schools from other sectors involved. We have now schools from other states involved in the project as well. So it is growing and certainly, as we can now see, this is an effective intervention to reduce anxious behaviours in kids and it's certainly supporting kids to get better schooling outcomes and it's certainly putting. That's another thing we should share.

Rob : 31:12

Drew, first time sharing, haven't shared this. What one layer of the project does? The qualitative research component of the project takes an interview style where the researchers, which are at arm's length from the leadership team, are in conversation with the staff involved in delivering the project and they record notes on those conversations. And the researchers recently came back to us and said one of the things that you as a leadership team may not be aware is this is having a very positive impact on the wellbeing of school staff. They are saying I feel better about being a teacher because I can see what I've learned through this project is making a difference for the kids that I work with every day. So I know we've struggled a bit of recent times with the teacher workforce and having enough teachers to work with our kids, but this is certainly making teachers, or taking teachers to a place where they feel good about being in the profession.

Drew : 32:12

Was that an unintended consequence? Rob Walker.

Rob : 32:16

Being completely honest, drew, yes. Profession Was that an unintended consequence? Rob Walker? Being completely honest, drew, yes, it's definitely a positive outcome.

Rob : 32:28

I suppose if we'd sat back and thought what is the impact on the wellbeing of staff going to be if the kids are showing reductions in anxious behaviours, we probably could have predicted that we were going to get what we've got.

Rob : 32:38

But when it came from the researchers who, as I said, are from arm's length from the leadership team, we forwarded information from those researchers on what they've captured.

Rob : 32:49

Every data capture. After the data capture window closes, they compile a report and then provide it to us, and then we have also a summary report which brings together all the data. So this report that I'm referring to is for the schools that join at the beginning of the project. We still provide information that schools, if they join mid-year which is a possibility in the year of 2025, that the feedback that they will get on the impact in their school community will look different. But those schools that join at the commencement, every year there's a report provided by the tertiary researchers we have involved in the project and, irrespective either way, the feedback you're getting is giving you information at the school level you can use to shape your work and refine your practice and it also, as Trish alluded to earlier on, you can, and most schools have got this incorporated in their school plan and you've got improvement measures that you can report on and show shifts as a result of the energies that are going into the delivery of the project in the school.

Drew : 33:53

I was going to go to you, Trish, in terms of what we're measuring. We're measuring student levels of anxiety. The unintended consequences are that what I've heard is that the teacher's levels of anxiety has reduced. Are there other unintended consequences? Or parents, is their anxiety reduced? Can you elaborate further on any other measures that we may have missed?

Trish: 34:22

I don't know that I can elaborate on parent anxiety, but parents report feeling more supported and feel like they've actually got some direction, because parents are motivated by wanting to do the very, very best for their kids. But when you give them the training and the support to be able to understand that sometimes what they're doing is not helpful without blame, that's the really important part to be able to get them on board. And speaking of unintended outcomes or unintended consequences unintended, you know, unintended outcomes or unintended consequences. In cohort one we initially had we were taking data because our coaches asked us to take data on every student in the class. And in cohort one, the schools who collected data on every child in the class were able to see those students who were in the borderline, also the under categories for anxiety, and it helped them to then refer on to their school counsellor, because you have an obligation when you identify something that's significant, a significant problem, to seek support. So the measures that we use is freely available from the Macquarie University website where it's parked with all their other social and emotional resources. But schools use that information to refer students on and I think that was something that we weren't expecting.

Trish: 35:46

In cohort one, there was quite a high level, which surprised us, of students who had quite severe anxious behaviours that right up to now hadn't been addressed.

Trish: 35:59

I think in terms of school planning and I'm looking at how you might triangulate this with other data sets reducing anxious behaviours and developing those have-a-go cultures in a way that every person can speak to a student at school, I think we'll see in the future we'll be able to tie some of that success to the school refusal space, because that's becoming pretty significant, particularly for our younger students, when we think our catered to students who may have been more solidly affected by COVID. There's a good deal of school anxiety there and having teachers and SLSOs who can manage at every point of a conversation, addressing a student's anxious expressions is really, really helpful, rather than waiting for the learning and support teacher or waiting for the deputy principal to have the conversation. Everyone's skilled up to be able to do that and I think probably hard to capture that in some other kind of data set, but I suspect that you could probably be relating it to anxious behaviour to do with attendance. I know participation in just anecdotally at my school people have spoken about the number of kids who've actually started to have a go at trying out for sports that they wouldn't have tried out to do, participating in a choir you know being. Have a go, yeah, so yeah, I think yeah.

Drew : 37:35

I was going to say there's a lot of, I guess in terms of the word we said is triangulation, but the unintended consequences I'm hearing there could be the link with improved attendance rates, improved or reduction of suspensions. For example, I've heard increase of participation in uh, the arts program, just due to potentially the flip side is they, they've gone from being, their anxiety has been reduced and now, as a result, their confidence levels have improved and therefore, as a result, they participate once they feel enabled to be able to participate, which in terms of measuring, that is a hard, but also you could potentially see those correlations.

Trish: 38:27

Well, I would say your high potential and gifted education students too. The flip side some of those students suffer from extreme anxieties about performance and when every teacher's on the same page about how they can address anxious behavior around perfectionism not being able to do everything to the very best of their ability ways to avoid. It's pretty significant that these interventions are going to be applied to the whole range of contexts, including those children who are high performers.

Rob : 39:03

I just wanted to pick up Trish. Yeah, I was going to say Trish has almost covered the point I was going to make Not quite, though I think the powerful point that Trish has just shared about the staff all being on the same page and she's used the collective efficacy phrase earlier in the conversation I just want to say that one of the things that parents I hear coming forward with is this phrase of common language. The parents really have valued being in the same space in the way we are talking about managing anxious behaviours that kids may present with and knowing where to go. So the project provides a common language that the teachers, the non-teaching staff, slsos or teachers' aides, that the office staff, the school parents are all using, and that's a very powerful space to be in, especially when you have an understanding of what you're trying to achieve at the other end of this. The other thing Trish just mentioned was the have-a-go attitude, and that's a fundamental part of the project is encouraging kids to have a go, to be comfortable with something that doesn't work out perhaps the way they want to, but knowing how to go forward with it from there. So there's a lot of good outcomes here which are really growing young people's capacity through their participation in this project.

Rob : 40:33

Well, I'm going to say we've refined. Well, look, trish will follow me, I'm sure, look. I just want to say I think over the life of the project as a leadership team we have seen what works well and we've seen things that have still positive impact perhaps, but not as powerfully as some other aspects of what we're doing in the project. So we've really been able to hone our leadership of the project and really sharpen the focus and the things that matter for the schools. So I think the refining of the practice in the schools that have been involved in the project over time we can see what's working in schools. We can see what's working best in the delivery of the project. We can see where the emphasis on the different layers of delivery of the project needs to be placed.

Rob : 41:22

And the other thing we've done is we've got what we've said. It's a two-year project in each school. We've offered this year for the first time the sustaining schools component to the project. So there are schools now who have put up their hand to be in their third year of delivery of the project so that they are still able to access the cafes for principals and for the coaches. They're still accessing the online learning system. They're still accessing research capability. So each of the elements of the project is still available to those schools and they're really sharpening the saw on the work they're doing with the kids and the staff in this space and, of course, their parents, trish.

Trish: 42:02

I'd like to just add to that that the STEERCO meets annually and what we do is we review our performance as a team, as a project, and we recommend improvements or innovations. So, as I said, it's an iterative process and we go back to what worked well, what didn't work well and working out why it didn't work well and what we need to do. So those of you, like me, who were in cohort one would see the very big difference between cohort one and cohort three, because we've made some major improvements, because we're committed to ensuring the sustainability of these projects, so that it's not a set and forget. He will sell you a product and then walk away. What you've got is a very committed steer co that's going to make sure that for the life of this work it's going to meet your needs and it's going to be innovative.

Rob : 42:56

Yeah, I think I just put a word of clarification in there, drew. So that's what Trish has just referred to. There is our deep dive, where we really look across all aspects of delivery of the project. We come together with the researchers. We physically come together as a leadership team and really unpack every aspect of what we're doing across the 12 months and what impact it's had and what observations each of the different members of the steering committee have had as we've been working through.

Rob : 43:23

But we meet every fortnight. We're together every fortnight as a leadership team. We're looking at how the project is travelling in the moment and we're refining our practices and making adjustments and we're making sure we're listening carefully to the feedback we're getting from the coaches and the principals and we're refining our practices and making adjustments. And we're making sure we're listening carefully to the feedback we're getting from the coaches and the principals and we're looking at making sure that the next step that we take within the next two weeks is something that's going to really work well for the schools. So it's very much a dynamic process with very clear intended outcomes, but very well supported and, point in time, it's a really well put together project in my view.

Drew : 44:00

Yeah, it's a real team effort in terms of the steer coke working through, as you said, working through any identified issues, such a huge data set to draw upon. But, as you've said, it's the refinement, ongoing refinement of the processes and the results are very encouraging. So, for principals or leaders or parents listening to this, where to next in terms of there is a midterm uptake and they're listening and thinking I want my school to be involved. How could they go?

Rob : 44:42

about that process. Rob Walker, yeah, look, the best step they can take at this stage, I mean is to go to the PPA's website under the tab of professional learning, pull down and release on the anxiety project. There are flyers there that principals and interested parents who are perhaps part of a PNC might want to put around amongst a meeting that they're holding and discuss it. If it's a principal might want to discuss with the school staff or school executive. If it's a parent, they may want to sit down with the PNC. I would normally expect principals to be at those meetings, so it might be something they'd put in front of the principal prior and have a conversation with them to say look, we're interested in this project, we'd like to investigate it further. So those flyers are there on the website.

Rob : 45:28

We also have an expression of interest form and the expression of interest form. People can fill that out and indicate that they are interested and just need more information, or that they are interested and they're committed and they've set aside funding to become involved in the project. So either way, it's okay. We'll just provide support for wherever the school's at at that time To move them forward. They might say you know what, thanks, but not for us right now, or maybe in the next 12 months while we're winding up our participation in a different project. So timing it right for the school picking up the project, so it's going to work best in that school setting. But, yeah, it's a well-supported project. Once you indicate interest, there's information around you to help you have effective discussions to understand what it is that the project offers and what commitments your school would be entering into in joining the project.

Drew : 46:24

Yeah, terrific Thanks, Rob and Trish.

Trish: 46:27

And of interest. Drew, the parent shop, who worked with us to develop the anxiety project, also offer a similar project for our secondary schools. It's called RIOT. So Resilience in Our Teens, and it replicates and mirrors the same opportunity. So in those communities where there's a need K-12, there's always that available too.

Drew : 46:55

Particularly Trish. When you talk about the transition phase, as you said in what you've seen and you go back to your why it was, you were seeing this massive gap between the transition from the primary setting into the high school. So it does make sense for the primary schools to feed into high schools that are doing the Resilience in Teens, or known as the RIOT project.

Trish: 47:28

Yeah, some of our schools have partnered with primary schools as a learning community to implement the anxiety project and right yeah.

Rob : 47:39

Yeah, I was just going to say so. You alluded to this earlier and I probably should have made mention. So we do have this time this year 2025, for the first time, a mid-year intake for the project. It would be the same as we've discussed through this conversation, with one minor adjustment to how the research component of the project operates, but other than that, it's the same project for schools that have joined at the beginning of each of the last three years and would be for those schools that join at the beginning of 2026. A closed date for expressions of interest. Even if it's I'm interested and I need more information. That expression of interest needs to be in by the 16th of June and the expression of interest form is on the PPA website, as I said, underneath Professional Learning tab. Pull down and release on the Anxiety Project and you'll see the expression of interest form there with the flyers, information, some links to some more um television work that's been done about the project and some radio interviews and things.

Drew : 48:42

All useful for unpacking, uh, what the project is with your school community yeah, terrific in terms of the auis, as we reca recapped Monday, the 16th of June 2025,. What's especially encouraging is that the data is showing significant changes in teacher confidence in recognising anxiety and knowing how to respond. Staff are also reporting a marked improvement in their wellbeing as they realise how these changes they make have improved outcome for their students. Changes they make have improved outcome for their their students. And as our guests have said, go to the new south wales ppa forward slash anxiety project and you'll find all of the further information, including the project overview, case studies, information sessions, as well as the expression of interest form really truly making from. If we go back to the start start of the project in when it was forming in 2019, where we have the problem we've now in 2025. I'll just close with with trish peters where would you like to see? Where do you, what's your, what's your wish in terms of where the project will go from here?

Trish: 50:00

It will be great for us to see this implemented in every public school in New South Wales, but even better if we can support our colleagues in other states, in other jurisdictions because, again, being a whole of community approach, what we want is we want a less anxious generation.

Drew : 50:20

Yeah, well said, Trish Peters and Rob Walker, what is your wish?

Rob : 50:26

Well, before going to my wish, I just want to thank the presidents of the PPA over the life of this project, Phil Seymour, Robyn Evans and Michael Burgess, who have all been part of this project in some way, shape or form. They've made a difference to what's going on for kids across the country through their involvement in this project and all have made significant contributions. The other thing that I would like to see moving forward is that I know our smaller schools are struggling with the financial commitment to be involved in the project. I'd like to see support for schools, whether we can bring on board additional governance support or whether we can bring on board some philanthropy, but it's certainly something that children in our schools or young people in our schools are benefiting from, and I think it would be great to see more of our kids have access to this experience, this learning. It's life- changing.

Drew : 51:19

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and couldn't agree more. Without the support of our leaders, our Presidents and you have, we wouldn't be where we are at this point in time. Rob Walker, Trish Peters, thank you again for your time, your leadership and your passion for making our schools safer and stronger for every child.

Trish: 51:43

Thanks so much.

Rob : 51:46

Great to be with you, Drew. Thanks, Trish.

Drew : 51:49

Thanks again for listening to this episode of the New South Wales Primary Principals Association, professional Learning, educational Leadership Podcast. If you found this podcast valuable, please share it with your colleagues and your school community. We really appreciate your support in spreading the word. I'm your host, drew Janetsky, and I look forward to your company next time as we continue to learn, lead and grow together.