Professional Learnings NSWPPA Educational Leadership

Part 3 Rob Stones: Elevating Educational Leadership: Strategies for Team Alignment and Self-Managed Learning

• NSW PPA Professional Learning • Season 2 • Episode 5

Share episode

Ever wondered how an accidental e-book author evolved into a beacon for educational leaders? Rob Stones Pioneer in Leadership Learning guides us through his publications. Rob's literary journey has paved the way for school leaders to navigate the complexities of modern education. His work transforms the mundane into the extraordinary, offering a lifeline through the 'window of certainty' to align teaching teams, and the 'leader mind equation' to continue growth post-workshop. Discover Rob's treasure trove of insights that arm educators with the necessary tools for clarity, capacity, and commitment in our latest Principal Learnings Podcast episode.

We dig into the nitty-gritty of teamwork and the collaborative spirit that's essential in any educational environment. Imagine kickstarting meetings with energy that ripples through your team—Rob introduces us to 'walk and talk', a method that revitalizes staff connections. But it's not all about techniques; we also tackle the tough stuff. The 'Mind in the Gap' concept is a critical lens on the space between ideals and the realities of leadership, a space that can either motivate or discourage. Stay tuned as we also cover the pivotal topic of teacher well-being, stressing the power educators have to script their own tales of joy and fulfillment in their roles.

Taking a leap into classroom dynamics, we analyze the choice theory and its application for creating self-managed learners, inspired by Rob's upcoming book "Teaching Students to Self-Manage in the Classroom." Imagine a classroom where learners navigate their behavior and emotions with finesse—Rob's hundred strategies illuminate this path. We discuss the contrast between delayed gratification and instant rewards, and how this understanding can revolutionize self-management in young minds. Wrap up with us as we share a catalogue of professional learning opportunities that cater to the evolving needs of educational leaders, all available through the New South Wales Primary Principals Association. Join us for an episode that's not just a conversation, but a catalyst for elevating your educational leadership to new heights.


Rob Stones recently released publication:
Teaching Students to Self-manage in the Classroom
https://www.futureshape.com.au/leadership/products/The-Self-Managing-Classroom.html

To purchase Rob Stones publications please visit:
https://www.futureshape.com.au/

The Window of Certainty
https://www.futureshape.com.au/leadership/products/The-Window-Of-Certainty-Main.html

Minding The Gap
https://www.futureshape.com.au/leadership/products/Minding-The-Gap.html

The Leader-Mind Equation
https://www.futureshape.com.au/leadership/products/The-Leader-Mind-Equation.html

The TAO of Team in Practice
https://www.futureshape.com.au/leadership/products/The-TAO-Of-Team-In-Practice.html






To view our Professional Learning Offerings visit:
https://www.nswppa.org.au/professional-learning




Drew :

Hello and welcome to Season 2 of the Principal Learnings Podcast. If you're a Principal or educational leader looking to enhance your skills, this is the place for you, so let's get into it. Let's embark on this learning journey together. In this discussion, Rob shares his insights into his publications and how they can support your journey as an education leader. All of the links to his books and the publications can be found in our podcast notes.

Rob:

I'm an accidental author, okay. So in the process of working with teachers and schools and principals, once I'd left the principal retreat myself, I wanted to work with teachers and principals still, so I started designing and running workshops and doing individual consultancy and coaching, and all my books in some ways probably originally came out of the art of leadership or related things. Because in the very first art of leadership, judy Hatswell explained what she then called the window of safety, which is a way of bringing your teachers together so that they're all on the same page. And immediately after that very first workshop, I remember the workshop was at Coffs Harbour and two of the principals wrote to us and said tell us more. You've given us a sketch, now I need to know more. So I guess in the art of leisure I'll always be the writer. So I said, okay, well, I'll put together something. And then he said tell us more. And other people from the next lot of workshops were asking the same thing. So I said well, how about we put together a little e-book, which is what we did and what we came to call the window of certainty began as an e-book because we thought that everybody would read it. But people said to us can you really publish this? Because we don't read e-books, which is strange, but anyway it's still the case. We sell 20 times the number of copies of the paperback of the window of certainty than people buy an e-book, but anyway, so that's how they got started.

Rob:

So I was just responding to a need and then the next need that came along. Two things came along. The people said can you write down all this stuff that's in the art of leadership, so that we, if you like, have got a handbook of it? So the leader mind equation is born and I framed it around a bit of an equation that says effectiveness as a leader is building capability of your staff, helping your staff to be really, really clear, to be engaged and committed, removing the distractions. So lots of ways of distracting your staff from the main job. If, as a leader, and it's important to figure out which things help them or which things hurt them, I lost it. Anyway, I built it around a little equation which we call the leader mind equation, but again, it was just an attempt to put in place some things that people could go back to after the art of leadership and read about some things that people could go back to after the art of leadership and read about.

Drew :

So that consolidates the yeah, sorry, I was going to say. Does that really consolidates the recommendation? For those who are considering taking on the art of leadership course, would you recommend that they read the leader mind equation.

Rob:

The leader mind equation yeah yeah no, no, don't read it. Don't read it first, read it after.

Rob:

Yeah read it after, because it wouldn't yeah and, at the same time, one of the things that we do in the art of leadership which I do in all my developer programs is try to um, create activities, games if you like. You know metaphors, you know um metaphors, metaphors in action, um, uh and um. Also, bring people together. Find activities that bring people together so that there's a team ethos in the art of leadership. So you, you will be able to testify to this. You know, by the time everybody finishes the six days with the other leadership, they know each other really well, they do each other's company, they feel that they're working together, and so people would say it was well, how are you doing that? We know we see you doing. How are you doing that? We see you doing it. How are you doing it?

Rob:

Okay, so that led me to write the book the Tale of Team in practice, because I can't remember how many activities 90 or so activities you can do First of all, to help your team get to know each other, then to get your team to explore the differences between them, then to come together with a shared understanding of their purpose, and then activities that will help them keep learning together and working together.

Rob:

So those are all the things that we build into the art of leadership, and the TAO team makes it explicit.

Rob:

This is not magic, it's just a piece of deliberate team building and one of the interesting things we found first of all is that people who did this suddenly found themselves with influence, both with their team of start and their executive teams, once they started to do these things together.

Rob:

Because otherwise team in school is a bit of an illusion. You know you're teaching grade three, so you're in the year three team, but you don't do much as a team together, you don't do much in getting to know each other for the purpose of sharing the best ideas and so on. When people take that back to their school and start to do these ways of getting to know each other and engaging with each other, then they find the same thing as the other leadership People get on really well and it's probably much easier to share ideas and to really get on the same page. And school executive teams both primary and high school, especially high school, because high school they all tend to come from their own silos into the executive team meeting you know, and think they're representing the interests of their staff.

Rob:

So it's either a monologue from the executive or a kind of union meeting, but the practicality of it is everybody can understand on the executive team of the school. This is what we're about and these are the other people who are building this future with me and this is how we can work together in order to remove the frustrations that people have with working with each other and maximize the effectiveness of working with each other. And maximize the effectiveness of working with each other. It's so worthwhile. It doesn't take much time. Somebody said I'm supposed to do all this once and there's enough activities there to take you through a five-year cycle. I'll give you a variety of activities for everything so that you can introduce some of those things right from the time your team starts together, instead of all sitting down at the table when we come into the executive and start on the order of the agenda.

Rob:

Whatever it is you know spending 10 minutes um sharing something really good that's happened in your day, or 10 minutes talking about um. If I had to give a two minute speech to a group of undergraduates about why they would be wanted to be, what things would I say to them Whatever you choose is something that it's enjoyable. People learn about each other. One of the things that we do at the Isle of Leadership is what we call walk and talk, which is sharing. When you're walking around so many school staffs across New South Wales and Queenstown, where I still work as well, adopt that strategy. Come to staff meeting, join up with somebody else, have a five-minute positive walk talking about something that's happened. When you come to sit down in a meeting, even if you then go straight on to a very formal agenda, the energy level in the room is different. Instead of sort of sagging into the room and going here we go, again we go. Oh, that's pretty good.

Drew :

They look forward to coming and look forward to learning together. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah and look forward to learning together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the DAO of teams is a space we were going to explore with the New South Wales PPA. We have had some. I believe we have had a couple of courses. You can correct me if.

Rob:

I'm wrong here? I think so. Yeah, yeah, I think there are a couple of courses that were organised at the end of 2022. Then there's a change your predecessor left. As it all hand over.

Drew :

some things disappear temporarily, well it's something temporarily, I would say Paused, hold things change. I would say pause, hold things change. And that is something that, through the PPA, I'm sure we would love to explore further as well, because those activities are going back to the art of leadership and the purpose of the book is to bring everyone together and to work really effectively as a team. So I think that we'd be very responsive for our members and we would appreciate that. So we will possibly come back to that. Okay, what else have you authored that?

Rob:

you could share, so that I wrote after that the leader-minded sorry, the Mind in the Gap which is about choice theory, really, but I'll try to put it in a slightly different way. So choice theory teaches us that motivation comes from comparing what's happening in your life with what you want. From moment to moment it changes depending on what the context is. We're always trying to get the best, improve things, make things closer to our ideal. Okay, so if I'm a teacher in a classroom and my ideal is to have a group of young people working enthusiastically with me and I look at what's happening and I see, you know, flat, empty eyes, I'm highly motivated to do something about it, and we all are. The trouble is that life also has a different kind of motivation, which is called avoidance motivation, which is moving away from what you don't want. So as a teacher, I can either go I'm going to have to really work hard at something here to lift the energy levels of these children and help to ensues them in what we're doing or change the activity so they are more enthusiastic, or whatever. That's my positive motivation, to get things closer to how I see them. And my negative motivation would be oh, these kids aren't worth it anyway, so I won't put any effort into it. Because I'm just disappointed, so I won't do it. Unfortunately, negative motivation, the away from motivation, always leaves you worse off because it's kind of a defensive position. Positive motivation is when you start to see that you can always improve the situation. When you have limited choices, there's always something you can do that will make things marginally better. So Mind in the Gap is about that gap between what we want and what's happening is always there. As human beings, our job is to look after it, to mind it and make it work in our benefit so that we can lead more satisfying lives. And a little bit of writing it up was about about well-being, about teacher well-being, because I was trying to help teachers again to see that they're the author of their own well-being and job satisfaction. And then the book that's just about to be published.

Rob:

The fourth one again comes out of my work with schools and the art of leadership, because a lot of people, as a result of the art of leadership, have taken a course in choice theory, so they understand the theory. But the thing that keeps coming back, both from principals and teachers, is so what specifically do we do in the classroom If you put that into place? If we're doing that theory, what things would we do in the classroom If you put that into place? You know, if we're doing that theory, what things would we do and what would we not do? So the lady's book, which is called Teaching Students to Self-Manage in the Classroom, is about that. What do we do so that young people in our classroom are learning to manage themselves? So I don't have to manage them, I just have to teach. Yeah, and what are the specific strategies? Because we know from choice theory okay, the only person who can manage a young person is themselves. So we can change the context so that they're more or less interested in motivating, in managing themselves.

Rob:

And one of the things that many leaders and teachers suffer from is doing things for people, and and one of the things that is least useful to a to a growing individual is is managing them. So if the teacher in the classroom thinks it's their job to manage the children you know, tell them where to go and what to do and how to evaluate their own behavior and so on the students aren't learning that and then you put that together in the home. The students are always being taught what to do and how to do it. Told what to do and how to do it Well, they won't learn to manage each other. And then the trouble is they get to that age you know the age I always call it the age of separation when they start to realize that as a human being, they need to engage with society, not just with their parents and teachers. So, unless their parents and teachers are pretty influential, there tends to be that difficult time in the early teenage years when the kids are rebelling. The trouble is they're rebelling but they haven't developed the skills.

Rob:

Whereas if we as teachers help teach young people to manage themselves you know there's a hundred different strategies in this book for things to actually do in the classroom with the young people that'll help them to manage themselves all come out of glasses, zero, right, so that if we use those systematically, you don't need to use all 100, if we use 20, the kids would be getting the message, so that more and more students would be know that they're being in charge of their own behavior. Okay, know what to do, know how to do it, so that, hey, there's an enormous amount of stress removed from teachers. But secondly, we produce. We're helping to produce a generation of young people, um, who will leave, go on to high school and then leave high school with really clear understanding of that. They're responsible for their own behavior and they know how to do it, where they're often told that they should be behaving themselves, which is a kind of meaningless phrase. Everybody's always behaving, um, but you know the being being deliberately taught, along with the curriculum over here, how to manage yourself as a human being and take responsibility for your own actions Such an important thing for young people to learn.

Rob:

So that's what the newest book's about published in about a month, I guess something like that. Okay, we'll just. Yeah, we'd love to.

Drew :

And your thoughts were who was your intended audience for that book, rob?

Rob:

All the teachers have said to me yes, I've done choice theory, but I can't really work out what to do and what not to do in the classroom easily. You know, bill Glasser in that created him as an influential psychiatrist and psychologist and an influential thinker in the education area. You know, in a prison school, the Ventura School for Girls, and so he wrote about it in his first, well, his seminal book, reality Therapy, his seminal book, reality Therapy, and he doesn't give that much detail. You know, we know that he was creating good relationships with the students. We know that he did some talking, thinking, therapeutic activities. We know that his success rate was phenomenal. Okay, ventura's group of girls went from a recidivism rate of nearly 90% to a recidivism rate of less than 10% in the time he was there.

Rob:

Yeah, it was remarkable, absolutely remarkable yeah, yeah, but there's not enough detail about what he did and he did try to fill that in in the quality school and the quality school teacher, but the problem is that he wasn't himself a teacher, so he was always working a bit from the outside in. The advantage that I've got, and that people in the Glassdoor Institute who work with me have got, is that we're working at teaching from the inside out. We can see even more clearly than Bill could. Excuse me, no problem.

Rob:

We can see even more clearly than Bill did. What are the things that reduce our influence with young people, what are the ones that increase it. What are the things that help kids to feel safe in the school and in the classroom, what are the things that lead to them feeling unsafe, what are the things that lead to success and what are the things that lead to kids switching off. So we've got those clues and then over the years because I didn't invent everything in this new book over those years, teachers around the place have said, oh, this has worked and I'll do this.

Rob:

One of the things that people realized in a couple of schools I worked in is if they really worked on helping young people, especially people in the younger primary learn how to delay gratification right, so they didn't want instant reward or instant gratification for something. They teach them how to delay gratification, okay, they become much better at managing themselves. Now, that's counterintuitive to what a lot of primary school teachers do and they learn to do over time because every time the kids do something good, they get a sticker or a merit certificate, so there's no delay of gratification involved. And yet that learning to put off not getting a short-term reward in terms of delaying until you get real satisfaction in what you're doing. Here's a journey for all children.

Rob:

An enormous number of children learn that really well from their parents and some from thoughtful teachers. But in some ways we developed a culture in primary schools of thinking that if we just keep on trotting out the short-term rewards, then what we discover is inevitably some kids get tired of that and then we've got nothing except to go back to punishments. But the other consequence is they go into high schools where there's none of that stuff. But the other consequence is they go into high schools where there's none of that stuff. So go directly from this I'm being rewarded in the short term to now. You're expected to look after your own learning and achievement with no transitions, and some kids get lost in that.

Drew :

And find taking responsibility for their own learning very difficult. Yeah, it sounds like a very powerful book and in terms of what the impact of that, I'm sure our listeners would be very curious too. When is that book being released?

Rob:

And can you tell us again the title of the book, rob? It's called Teaching Students to Self-Manage in the Classroom. Subtitled Promoting Responsibility and Well-Being. Resilience and Well-Being, you know? Because here's the thing, that all the research Ed Deasy's research is very strong on this All the research tends to show that the more people are managing themselves and not depending on outside influences or external local control, the better people are managing themselves. The better people manage themselves, the better they feel about themselves. So it increases their well-being and the more resilient they are. So these are two things that at schools we're talking about a lot of the time. How do we help our kids to be more resilient? How do we improve well-being in the classroom, and so the book feeds into that very specifically.

Drew :

Yeah, there's absolute need for that, so looking forward to sharing that as well. Further, I presume it would be on your website.

Rob:

Yep, it's on there, we're coming soon on it and as soon as it's out, the coming soon label will disappear and it'll be on the bookstore.

Drew :

Fantastic Look, rob can always talk for and we've persevered through some pretty external noises in our discussion today Done very well in terms of staying focused. So thank you for giving us time in terms of your background, your wisdom, the research and also those pearls of wisdom for our listeners to think about. And it would be great to explore further conversations around, particularly the Tower Teams, which was a PPA course we could explore further. Any last pieces of advice for our listeners no, not really.

Rob:

I mean, I can always talk for a long time about what I'm passionate about. I'm passionate about the potential that education always has to improve the potential of young people. I think that that's. You know. As a school leader, that was what I hope was driving me all the time and the people I coach and work with. That's one of the clear messages I want to get across. That's our job. That's probably a clear message I want to get across. That's our job. It's not our job to serve governments or organisations. Our job is to serve the young people in our schools so that they can get the most out of themselves.

Drew :

Yeah, great words of advice. Thank you, rob. Always a pleasure to talk to you. If you're a principal or educational leader looking to enhance your skills, this is the place for you. This season, we'll be showcasing a wide range of professional learning experiences designed with your success in mind. We'll continue to focus on the values of wellbeing, leadership, growth, as well as optimising school operations. Curious to learn more about our offerings? You'll find our full catalogue on our website at wwwnswppaorgau. Or you can easily book your next professional learning experience at wwwnswppaorgau. Professional-learning-calendar-bookings. If you or your network is interested in further professional learning through the New South Wales Primary Principals Association, reach out to me directly.

Drew :

Djinecki, at newsouthwalesppaorgau. No-transcript. No-transcript. This is the place for you. This season, we'll be showcasing a wide range of professional learning experiences designed with your success in mind. We'll continue to focus on the values of wellbeing, leadership, growth, as well as optimising school operations. Curious to learn more about our offerings? You'll find our full catalogue on our website at wwwnswppaorgau. Forward slash catalogue. Or you can easily book your next professional learning experience at wwwnswppaorgau. Forward slash professional-learning-calendar-bookings. If you or your network is interested in further professional learning through the new south wales primary principals association, reach out to me directly d jenetsky at new south wales, ppaorgau. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Drew Janetzki

Host