Revolutionising Education: Reflective Practice and Empowering Leadership with Sue Orlovich

Sue Orlovich is currently a researcher and tutor at The University of Sydney, with a focus on the field of teacher practice and pedagogy. With over thirty years of experience as a teacher and principal in diverse schools across Sydney, she brings practical knowledge and lived experience to her research. Currently pursuing her PhD in teacher professional learning in the 4Cs, Sue is seeking to better understand how the practices enacted in school settings lead to transformed teacher practice and improved student learning.

In addition to her research endeavours, Sue is also a qualified professional supervisor, holding a Graduate Certificate in Professional Supervision. Through her work as a supervisor, she guides colleagues in engaging in reflective practice, creating a supportive space for them to analyse complex situations, explore their emotional responses, and tap into their own experiences. Sue recognises the value of personal experience and its influence on professional practice, helping practitioners develop a deeper awareness of how their experiences shape their work.

Sue's passion for supervision and reflective practice stems from her genuine interest in the learning and well-being practices of teachers and leaders within educational settings. She is excited about the potential for further developing and implementing reflective practices in schools, ultimately fostering growth and enhancing the professional learning of leaders within the education community.

Are you ready to transform your approach to professional learning and leadership in education? Join us in an insightful conversation with Sue Olavich, former primary school principal and current PhD student at the University of Sydney, as we explore the power of reflective practice and how it can revolutionize the way educators tackle complex challenges.

Dive into the world of reflective practice and discover how it differs from coaching while providing a safe space for professional conversations. Learn about the New South Wales PPA's Professional Learnings for Educational Leaders initiative and how it supports principals in leading diverse school communities. With Sue's expert guidance, gain a deeper understanding of the importance of principal well-being, lead learning, and school operations, and how these values are integral to providing support, empowerment, advocacy, and leadership for educators. Don't miss this invaluable opportunity to elevate your professional learning and leadership skills in the world of education.

Reflective Practice : Scholarship Opportunity for NSWPPA Members to participate in Reflective Practice.
Visit: https://www.nswppa.org.au/catalogue to for further information. (Pages:41-45)

To view our Professional Learning Offerings visit:
https://www.nswppa.org.au/professional-learning

Transcript

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 0:07

Thanks, Drew. I'm Sue Olavich and I'm a former primary school principal and I'm working at the moment at the University of Sydney undertaking some research in teacher professional learning and the four C's.

Drew or Sue: 0:20

Sue has had 30 years of experience as a teacher and a principal in diverse school settings across Sydney, which brings a practical knowledge and lived experience with her research. Sue is currently pursuing her PhD in teacher professional learning. in the four C's, sue is seeking to better understand how the practices enacted in the school setting lead to transform teacher practice and improve student learning. In addition to her research endeavour, sue is also a qualified professional supervisor, holding a graduate certificate in professional supervision. Through her work as a supervisor, she guides colleagues in engaging with reflective practice, which creates a supportive space for them to analyse complex situations, explore their emotional responses and tap into their own experiences. Sue recognises a valuable personal experience and its influence on professional practice and helping practitioners develop a deeper awareness of how their experiences shape their work. Sue's passion for supervision and reflective practice stems from her genuine interest in learning and wellbeing practice of teachers and leaders within the educational setting. Welcome to our podcast today. Great to have you.

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 1:37

Thanks, drew, great to be here.

Drew or Sue: 1:40

Fantastic, Sue. we're just going to talk today about reflective practice. Can you tell our listeners what reflective practice is about?

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 1:49

Sure.

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 1:50

So reflective practice is really an opportunity to have a professional conversation really with a colleague that has a particular structure to it, where the reflectee so the reflectee is what I when I refer to the person who's reflecting.

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 2:11

So the colleague who's reflecting, the reflectee brings along either a problem of practice, an issue, an idea, a challenge that they would like to explore during the time that we have together, and so reflective practice is really an opportunity for me, as a reflector, to hold the space for the person that's reflecting, to be able to provide a really safe space for them to reflect on the issue that they're bringing to reflective practice, to have an opportunity to consider that problem of practice or the challenge from different perspectives, to analyse it, to have it reflected back to them by myself or the person that's reflecting with them, and then also to, i guess, to come to a deeper understanding and a different perspective sometimes of what that particular issue is about.

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 3:20

So, in terms of what is reflective practice, you know, i guess at the heart of reflective practice is learning and a deeper understanding of the challenge or the issue that the person is wishing to explore, and reflective practice really is a mechanism where time and space is provided for that person to reflect deeply about that particular aspect or challenge and to come to a deeper understanding. Sometimes as a result of reflective practice. That means that the person might then have some actions that they take with them as a result of reflective, but other times it might be that they simply have a deeper understanding of the complexity and they may have some ideas for where to go next, or they may have some deeper insights about themselves as a leader in their particular setting.

Drew or Sue: 4:22

Yeah, wow, yeah. it's a lot of really key elements that you've said there. So I guess, for the uninformed, what would be the difference with the reflective practice, to say, other coaching courses that are available to principals and executive?

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 4:42

Yeah, well, i guess what's similar about reflective practice and coaching is that there's an element of reflection in both reflective practice and in coaching.

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 4:53

One of the the noticeings that I have about what's different is that, in coaching conversations that I might have with people, they may revolve around getting an idea or an understanding of what's gone on in a situation, identifying a goal that you would like to establish and then perhaps exploring some options for establishing that goal and then looking at what actions might come as a result of that.

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 5:25

And those coaching conversations are absolutely integral, particularly when addressing challenges that might be simple challenges or even complicated challenges. Where I see the difference, though, in reflective practice, is for sometimes unpacking those issues or challenges that we consider to be complex and we know that Helen Templey talks about that notion of complex challenges that we often encounter as leaders And reflective practice, i think where it stands apart and where it really comes into its own in terms of it being an incredibly helpful mode, is the ability to really deeply analyze the complex situation from different perspectives, to have the person that I'm reflecting with be able to reflect back and hear that problem of practice unpacked in particular ways from different perspectives. So, possibly from my noticings, i think one of the differences is that coaching conversation can be particularly helpful in addressing challenges that might be complicated. Reflective practice can be particularly helpful in addressing complex challenges that may need a deeper level of analysis and exploration.

Drew or Sue: 7:03

Yeah, great. So how would our colleagues experience principles? Is this aimed at experience principles or levels of the principle ships? Who would you say would benefit most from that? Or would you say that's too general? It could be towards really anyone in their principle, where they are, in their career. Where would you, i guess, give guidance to those listeners who are considering reflective practice?

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 7:38

Yeah, that's a great question, Drew. I guess because reflective practice is quite different to mentoring. It's quite different to coaching. It's really a skill set that assists others to think deeply about their experience and the work that they do. So it would certainly be a great fit for people who are interested in facilitating the learning of others. It would be a great fit for people who are interested in exploring how we create spaces that are safe spaces but also brave spaces for learning to take place. So I don't think that necessarily equates with where you may be in your principal career. Perhaps it equates more closely with people who may have a particular drive to facilitate the learning and the well-being of others and to learn more about how you actually may go about doing that. So people who are interested in building and developing that skill set may be really drawn to this sort of work.

Drew or Sue: 8:55

Yeah, it's interesting. The skill set of being able to whether the wording is coaching to make a, as you said, to make a brave space is or a psychological safe place, is a skill set in its own. To be able to develop and learn and harness that skill. Is this what this reflective practice will teach participants in this course?

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 9:24

Yeah, and I guess one of the things that participants do learn about is the difference between reflective practice and counseling or therapy, and certainly they're very different And the learning that we undertake in order to be able to facilitate reflective practice is not the same as the learning that one would undertake in order to provide therapy or counseling. But I think what's significant about that learning is that you also do learn how to become alert and aware and how to respond, and if reflective practice moves into a space where it's identified that the person who's reflective actually may require some further support in terms of counseling or therapy, so it's learning that skill set to be able to how to manage and how to respond appropriately as a reflector if those situations emerge.

Drew or Sue: 10:31

Yeah, so in the New South Wales Primary Principles Association, sue, we have three key values, and I'm not sure if you're aware of them, but they are principal well-being, their lead learning and school operations. Sue, where do you feel that this, where do you feel reflective practice, would fit in our core values?

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 10:54

True, i think it aligns really beautifully because one of the models that you actually learn about during reflective practice is an interactive model called Proctor's Model, and there's a metaphor that's often used in this particular model of a three-legged stool and you can imagine, you know, if you're sitting on a three-legged stool and one of the legs is actually either wobbly or broken or it's too short, you're not going to have a comfortable seat on that stool because you're going to be out of balance.

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 11:27

And reflective practice, you know you're able to align, you know, to those three values in the sense that sometimes, when we're reflecting, the focus may be on restoration and be completely a restorative focus for the duration of the session, because that's what the reflector has brought to the session.

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 11:53

Other times it might be that we sit completely in that learning space, so that educative space, that other leg of the stool, where, depending on what the reflector has brought to the session, it may be completely appropriate that the focus is on the learning of the participant, but other times it may actually be about what Proctor talks about. Is this sort of managerial sort of aspect, which is this idea that? what connections can I make with this issue that I'm dealing with and my work as a principal? How does that fit in with the requirements and the realm that I sit within as a principal So interesting that you know the three values of the PPA really align quite beautifully with the three aspects that you know. Whilst they're separate, they're also intertwined in the way that we engage in reflective practice, so I think they really align beautifully.

Drew or Sue: 12:55

Yeah, great. So you've mentioned previously around some well-known researchers. Is there any research or an evidence that supports reflective practice and ongoing evidence as well, to measure the impact of what this course could bring to participants?

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 13:16

Yeah, so the reflective practice is used extensively in many of the helping professions. So you know, quite commonly we see reflective practice, or it's often called supervision, in the medical field. It's used in nursing, for example, extensively. It's used often in the area of psychology, often in people in social work, Professions that require, you know, a high degree of emotional intelligence, that are demanding in terms of aspects of well-being at times, And you know, when we think about the role that principals have in terms of being in the A helping profession or being in a demanding profession like we are, you know I think it aligns well.

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 14:10

So it's used already extensively as a practice that in those fields. It's also being used quite extensively in the UK system in school settings, And you know we often see that in terms of school leaders in an individual reflective practice. But we also see it in terms of group reflective practice where leadership teams might actually engage in reflective practice around particular issues or challenges that they may deal with in their own settings. So we certainly see it in professions that have very much a well-being focus but also a learning focus as well.

Drew or Sue: 15:01

Yeah, so is it a steep learning curve, sue, to become a reflective practitioner?

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 15:11

Yeah, that's a great question A reflector and a reflectee? Was it hard for you.

Drew or Sue: 15:20

Was it hard for you, as I think about the learning that you've done? Was it a change of mindset or what sparked your interest in this work?

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 15:34

Yeah, look, i think, as principals, we're very used to engaging in professional conversations with colleagues, with members of the community, with our staff and so on. And you know, what I think is interesting is that it just offers us a different frame and a different way of facilitating a professional conversation that is perhaps different to a conversation that we might have in a professional learning and development sense, and it provides a different scaffold or a different lens to explore complex and sometimes difficult issues. So, you know, was it hard? Probably more interesting than hard, and it was just. You know, i think, as principals, we always value, you know, our own learning and we value opportunities to build the repertoire of skills that we have in order to facilitate the learning and wellbeing of others. And I really see, you know, the learning and reflecting practice, reflective practice was really a way of enabling that.

Drew or Sue: 16:59

Yeah, great. Thank you, sue. Is there any other last comments you would like to share with our listeners today about reflective practice, if they are interested in this work?

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 17:11

Probably what comes to mind is you know what is reflective practice based upon, and it's based upon a process where we hold a space for people to interrupt their practice And as principles. You know we lead incredibly busy lives And you know it's an incredibly privileged space to be, to hold the space for someone to explore a challenge, an issue, a problem of practice, or just to focus on how it is that they are being in the world at this particular point in time, and so it's an incredible privilege to be able to reflect with colleagues and to have the learning and the skills to be able to do that in a safe way, but also to be able to provide an environment where they can be challenged to explore new horizons is an incredible privilege to have.

Drew or Sue: 18:16

Well said, sue. It indeed is an absolute privilege and it's been an absolute privilege listening to you today and sharing your thoughts and, on reflective practice and where it can fit with principles, considering this offering. Thank you again for your time. Really appreciate it.

Drew or Sue (Please note these speaking notes were created via AI): 18:33

Pleasure. Thanks Drew.

Drew or Sue: 18:38

Professional learnings for educational leaders is an initiative to support and inform New South Wales PPA members of the New South Wales PPA Professional Learning Suite offerings. Our professional learning suite is aligned to our values of principal well-being, principals as lead learners, as well as supporting principals to lead school operations. Our values are wrapped around support, empowerment, advocating and leading. The New South Wales Primary Principles Association is committed to supporting and empowering principals to effectively lead and manage school communities from a diverse range of contexts. The Association responds to and supports school leaders as they address different challenges in rural, remote as well as metropolitan schools. Further information about our professional learning can be found at our website newsouthwalesppaorgau forward slash professional learning.